Jump to content

Talk:Colleges of the University of Oxford

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wycliffe Scarf

[edit]

Is that right? Do Wycliffe and the Queen's really have the same scarf? --194.98.58.121 (talk) 12:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On their articles they look to be the same. I think the Queen's one is correct, but know nothing about the Wycliffe scarf. Nearly 9 years have passed and this has not been answered.--Bduke (talk) 07:34, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Financial Endowments

[edit]

I've added and started filling in a column of the Oxford Colleges' financial endowments, along similar lines to that featured on the Cambridge Colleges page. There's a link above the column which anyone else can use if they feel like continuing this project. Just scroll to the first page of financial data in the respective 2005/6 pdf file, and transcribe the figure lowest down on the left hand side (usually the largest). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.135.42 (talk) 14:53, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Westminster College

[edit]

It was part of Oxford University. It moved from London to Oxford, breaking its ties with the University of London, it ran into financial difficulty and the University sold it and was bought by Oxford Brookes University.

Colleges and Societies

[edit]

Statute V: Colleges, Societies, and Permanent Private Halls, confirms my suspicion that the beginning of this article is not strictly accurate. There are thirty-six colleges, three societies, and seven Permanent Private Halls. I don't really know what the difference is between colleges and societies. Perhaps somebody who does could comment.--AlexanderLondon 21:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - the article is not strictly accurate. The difference, as I understand it, is that the Colleges have each been established by Royal Charter, while the Societies have been established by the University. Philip Trueman 15:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

which are the top 10 colleges at Oxford and Cambridge? Is there a ranking?

Answer Yes, there is now an official ranking. See Undergraduate Degree Classifications 2004/05, although bear in mind that the positions change each year.

It depends of course on what you mean by the top ten. You could mean average degree classifications, but perhaps more important is the research output of the fellows and the success of DPhil students in getting Fellowships (etc) when they finish. As far as I know the PPHs aren't included in the league table for undergraduate degree results because they are too small for it to be worthwhile (for example, if Campion Hall were to get just one First in a year it would probably be top of the league table). The dons at PPHs are, at least within the worlds of Theology and to some extent Philosophy, probably of above average stature. Liz Carmichael, the in-house theologian of St John's (which I seem to recall has the best overall Norrington Table performance), would probably not be regarded as highly as, for example, Henry Wansbrough, the former Master of St Benet's, Paul Fiddes, the Principal of Regent's Park, or illustrious Blackfriars such as Brian Davies, Denis Minns, Timothy Radcliffe, Fergus Kerr, and the late Herbert McCabe.

College/PPH tables

[edit]

I think it may be worth adding a further column to the college table, detailing the dates the various institutions became colleges. I've marked on the "College status" dates for a few I know were founded as PPHs or other institutions, but I think there are more amongst the 18th - 20th century foundations. Also, perhaps the PPH table should indicate the affiliation of each Hall? Views? Mtpt 22:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Table of Colleges

[edit]

This table needs some immediate tending to as, however you try to arrange it - by clicking on the buttons next to College, Foundation etc - it wil only put teh colleges in alphabetical order or reverse alphabetical order by name. Algebra man 15:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think PPHs should be listed under colleges at large, on the basis that the university has now chosen to include PPHs under that listing in its prospectus. To make firm distinctions between PPHs and colleges bluntly ignores the fact that undergraduates at both have equivalent status at the university. Bill Hartram (talk) 15:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please take a second look at the population size for All Souls College? The sum of male and female students far outnumbers the total population. Also, the current population is ten (10) students. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manhattia (talk • contribs) 03:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Manhattia All the student numbers are for 2018, when All Souls had 9 students, so they all need to be updated to 2019, when All Souls had 10 students. Wikipedia is updated by volunteers so it can be out of date. The male and female students columns contain percentages so the total is and should be 100. TSventon (talk) 22:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Tsventon Ah, My misunderstanding. Manhattia (talk) 15:25, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Green/Templeton

[edit]

I think the merger between Green and Templeton has gone through now. Should these continue to be listed as separate (even if they're not)? Plus Greyfriars is not longer a functional PPH. Closed down at the end of last term IIRC. Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 21:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

File:Linacre College blade colors.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

[edit]

An image used in this article, File:Linacre College blade colors.png, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status

What should I do?

Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
  • If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
  • If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review

To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Linacre College blade colors.png)

This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 22:45, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Historical Colleges

[edit]

It would be great to have information within the article about the Oxford colleges that are no longer. Greyfriars, Oxford is a recent example. St Bernard's College and Durham College, Oxford are the other two I'm aware of. -- Fluteflute Talk Contributions 18:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah just found Category:Former colleges and halls of the University of Oxford -- Fluteflute Talk Contributions 18:13, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pembroke Panther vs St Peter's Squirrel

[edit]

Although I found the following anecdote (under College Rivalries) fairly amusing, I have my doubts concerning its authenticity:

A recent example of this came as a result of the 2006 rugby Cuppers final between Pembroke and St Peter's that culminated in a fight between the Pink Pembroke Panther and the St Peter's Squirrel, the respective mascots of each team.

Hitherto I have not been able to find a single reputable source on this hardly ordinary, yet seemingly obscure clash of titans. The only "newspaper" so far to refer to the incident was the University of Manchester's student newspaper, the Mancunion. The article was written in 2012 - a whopping 6 years after the fight reportedly occurred, does not add any further information and only refers to it in passing. Like the Mancunion, all other sources making note of the panther and the squirrel's scuffle seem to have copied their information directly from Wikipedia. For the time being, I've added a Citation needed tag to the anecdote. I welcome users who read or heard of the incident (or might have even been present) to alleviate me of my scepticism and restore my faith in a world where grown men dressed up as squirrels and panthers cross swords with one another to defend their team's honour.

RensCrevits (talk) 19:49, 22 April 2015 (UTC) User:RensCrevits[reply]

Assessment comment

[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Colleges of the University of Oxford/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Rated B-class as lacking references. Very important subject as this page will hopefully be much-visited by those unfamiliar with the collegiate structure of Oxford. Casper Gutman 08:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 08:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 12:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Colleges of the University of Oxford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot*this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 07:21, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

College rivalries

[edit]

The College rivalries section is a mess with clear long standing rivalries unsourced and the only sourced one (Hertford and St Hilda's) is about a JCR resolution in one of them only a few days ago. It might not even last out the academic year. Largely these things are trivial. I good section would be one that discussed rivalries from several hundred years ago through to the last century. Recent ones would only be mentioned if they were the older ones still continuing. The one between Hertford and St Hilda's is for facebook, not wikipedia. I do not have the time or resources here in Australia to do it. Is anyone else up to it, or shall we just delete the section? --Bduke (Discussion) 04:54, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would favour deletion of the section and insertion of a wikilink to College rivalry#United Kingdom at some point. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 11:03, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree about long-standing. The question is whether there are significant rivalries that can be reliably sourced. I found some anecdotes in Google books and have put a hold request for "The colleges of Oxford : their history and traditions" (c. 1891) from the Weston stacks. If it arrives I should have a bit of spare time this Weds or Thurs. @Bduke, do you have any suggestions for "rivalries" that should be included? If the section can't be improved, I've no objection to deletion if that's the consensus. - Pointillist (talk) 12:29, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I only know about the Queens/SEH one, which existed when I went up to Queens nearly 60 years ago and I then heard it went back to when SEH was part of Queens, as is mentioned in College rivalry#United Kingdom. There is an IP editor adding sources, but they are not independent and are all recent. We need his/her contributions here. We need decent sources or delete it. --Bduke (Discussion) 21:33, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The rivalries that strike me as long-standing are the very obvious geographical ones: Brasenose/Lincoln, Corpus/Merton, Christ Church/Pembroke, Balliol/Trinity and Queens/SEH. But it would be good to get some facts, as my Oxford memory only covers the last 30 years. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:12, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I spent a couple of hours in the Weston today going through Clark's 1892 book without success. I couldn't cover the entire book in the time available but I found nothing about rivalry in the chapters on Jesus College, Exeter, BNC, Lincoln, Pembroke, Worcester, Queens and SEH (indeed the opposite with SEH as a benefactor to Queens). The Merton chapter talked a bit about Balliol having received its first endowments a little earlier than Merton, but Merton being first to have statutes: I don't think that's an enduring rivalry. The Balliol chapter described a low point in the 17th century around the time of the restoration where Balliol was very poor and Ralph Bathurst used to stand in Trinity's adjoining grounds and throw stones to break Balliol's windows. If that's relevant I can write it up. Other than that it's been a rather useless, though interesting exercise. Several chapters have wonderfully waspish remarks about nineteenth-century changes to architecture, windows, ceilings, chapel layouts &c. Oxford seems to have been a rather awful place for much of the 18th century, then picked itself up after 1807 in the nick of time to avoid odious comparisons with modern upstarts like UCL and Durham. AFAICS the current version of University of Oxford#History ignores the 15th–18th centuries entirely. - Pointillist (talk) 23:26, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have (belatedly) added a reference for Christ Church-Pembroke and removed Hertford-St Hilda's and removed the according to whom and unreferenced tags.TSventon (talk) 11:22, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Colleges of the University of Oxford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:48, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Colleges of the University of Oxford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:35, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 08:06, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fourth oldest college

[edit]

The History section stated that the fourth oldest college is Hertford, which first became a college in 1740. This was due to an edit in May 2018 now reversed. The original text is consistent with the exclusion of St Edmund Hall from the five oldest colleges and the article on Exeter College which states that Exeter is the fourth oldest college. 81.86.211.166 (talk) 14:27, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Percentage of Undergraduates and Postgraduates

[edit]

We should create two columns, indicating the percentages of U and P students for every college.

@GS-216.1993: I would oppose this as three extra columns would be needed (U, P and V) which would create extra work and make the table less manageable. TSventon (talk) 11:55, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request

[edit]

Under the Postgraduate and mature colleges section, could we add the following? "Green Templeton College admits postgraduate students and clinical medical students." As per courses offered and admissions sources here: [1][2]

Foxplant2020 (talk) 13:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/colleges/green-templeton-college
  2. ^ https://www.gtc.ox.ac.uk/students/how-to-apply/courses-offered/
Clearly something along these lines would be sensible but I would like to check a few subtleties. Clinical medicine is slighlty anomalous within the university, being generally treated as a graduate course but with GTC bing the only graduate collage that admits for the degree [1] which is normlly studied at mixed colleges. The course page at your second reference is not entirely clear and your first reference lists 89 undergraduates despite describing GTC as a graduate college. Are these all clinical medics or something else? Jonathan A Jones (talk) 19:31, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
With no response in over a month, I'm treating this edit request as stale and marking it declined. If discussion resumes, the edit request may be reopened. Altamel (talk) 02:52, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do apologise for such a delayed response. I've not been full-time in office. I believe the 89 undergraduates referred to above are graduate entry medics who have done an undergrad course elsewhere and clinical medics who are around halfway through their medicine degree. I appreciate though it may be more accurate to describe Green Templeton as a graduate community and not a graduate college and therefore it would not be appropriate to add GTC to the list of postgraduate and mature colleges. Foxplant2020 (talk) 12:41, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan A Jones, does that answer your question satisfactorily? TSventon (talk) 14:51, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose so; at least I have moved on to other things so I won't oppose other people here. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:03, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline

[edit]

User:15, thank you for adding a timeline, I have a few comments:

  • the dates supplied relate to Cambridge rather than Oxford
  • Somerville has one m
  • St Hugh's College was originally St Hugh's Hall
  • Green Templeton is a graduate college, as were its predecessors
  • Is it possible to add a key for colours, e.g graduate and undergraduate colleges.
  • Possibly colleges, academic halls and PPHs should have different colours.

I also think it would be better in its own section, possibly collapsed like the map, but other page followers will have their own opinions. TSventon (talk) 16:05, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

TSventon, I wish it was my work but I stumbled upon it when browsing commons. Cmglee created this excellent timeline and he might be inclined to take up your suggestions? I wouldn't mind either way but the timeline is relatively "tall" and not particularly wide, putting it into its own section might create a lot of white space to its sides. 15 (talk) 16:56, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cambridge version
@15: Thanks for the compliment and letting me know.
@TSventon: Since you seem to know a lot about Oxford University, would you like to work together on it to produce something like the Cambridge version on the right? At the moment, it's partially finished due to uncertainties about many dates and when the colleges started admitting women. Re layout, I think something like on Colleges_of_the_University_of_Cambridge could work.
Cheers,
cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 00:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Cmglee:, I am happy to admit to being interested in the history of Oxford and would be happy to collaborate on a timeline. I can't guarantee to find every missing fact, but I will have a go. What information do you need and in what format? Is it easy to update the timeline if you have the source data in the right format? TSventon (talk) 13:37, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@TSventon: good to hear you'd like to collaborate. The graphic is generated from arrays in a Perl script embedded as a comment in [view-source:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Oxford_University_colleges_timeline.svg the SVG file]. Addressing your points:
  • What do you mean by dates relating to Cambridge? The foundations of the colleges were taken from the Oxford articles. If you mean the green bars, good catch. I don't know Oxford history well, so can you please suggest several non-overlapping notable events? If you could add them to this table, that would be super:
Label Start year End year
...
Thanks,
cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 00:12, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Cmglee:, I have started a new section for detailed answers below as it may be easier to discuss the different issues separately. I will think about Oxford-related green bars shortly. TSventon (talk) 14:31, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@TSventon: Many thanks for the detailed info. I'll look into it this weekend. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 22:41, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline data

[edit]

Coeducation

[edit]

@Cmglee: I have produced a table of college coeducation dates based on Wikipedia articles. I believe that Green College and Templeton College were coeducational from foundation, but this is not mentioned in their articles. Mansfield admitted some women in the early twentieth century, but went coeducational in 1979.[1] I have accepted 1877 as the date of coeducation at Manchester, but reality may be more complex. I haven't included PPHs as their articles don't give dates for the admission of women.

References

  1. ^ https://www.mansfield.ox.ac.uk/women-mansfield-brief-history
Extended content
Name Year of
Foundation 		Year of
Coeducation
All Souls College 1438 1979
Balliol College 1263 1979
Brasenose College 1509 1974
Christ Church 1546 1980
Corpus Christi College 1517 1979
Exeter College 1314 1979
Green Templeton College 2008 2008
Harris Manchester College 1786 1877
Hertford College 1282 1974
Jesus College 1571 1974
Keble College 1870 1979
Kellogg College 1990 1990
Lady Margaret Hall 1878 1979
Linacre College 1962 1962
Lincoln College 1427 1979
Magdalen College 1458 1979
Mansfield College 1886 1979
Merton College 1264 1979
New College 1379 1979
Nuffield College 1937 1937
Oriel College 1326 1985
Pembroke College 1624 1979
The Queen's College 1341 1979
Reuben College 2019 2019
St Anne's College 1879 1979
St Antony's College 1950 1962
St Catherine's College 1868 1974
St Cross College 1965 1965
St Edmund Hall 1278 1979
St Hilda's College 1893 2008
St Hugh's College 1886 1986
St John's College 1555 1979
St Peter's College 1929 1979
Somerville College 1879 1994
Trinity College 1555 1979
University College 1249 1979
Wadham College 1610 1974
Wolfson College 1966 1966
Worcester College 1714 1979

TSventon (talk) 12:51, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Colleges and halls

[edit]

Unlike Cambridge, Oxford has constituent bodies which are not colleges. The question is how practical it is to incorporate them into a timeline.

  • Academic halls: the timeline includes Hart Hall, Magdalen Hall, Gloucester Hall and St Edmund Hall as they became colleges. It might be worthwhile to colour their periods as halls differently. I listed the halls in 1600 as no new halls were recognised after that date and noted the dates of closure as a hall of each.
  • Private halls: too obscure for the time line.
  • Permanent private halls: it would be nice to add these but the only one with a coeducation date is St Benet's. St Peter's, Mansfield and Harris Manchester are former PPHs.
  • Women's colleges: they went through several stages from not being part of the university at all to full colleges, which would be difficult to summarise and it would probably also be difficult to find all the detail.
  • New foundations and societies: Keble was initially a new foundation, which mean it could be governed by a council, rather than its fellows. Kellogg, Reuben and St Cross are societies rather than full colleges. Again too much detail for the time line. TSventon (talk) 14:02, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
On Halls we have to be a bit careful about precursor Halls and other precursor institutions. Trasitionally St Ednund Hall takes the date of foundation of the precursor hall as the foundation of the institution as there is clear continuity. Similarly Exeter College is dated from Stapeldon Hall. But oddly Brasenose College is dated from 1509 although there is substantial institutional continuity with Brasenose Hall. Tradition, I suppose, combined with the fact that we don't actually know when Brasenose Hall was founded beyond "before 1333" from the foundation of Stamford University (England). For Worcester College I don't think there is any link to Gloucester Hall, despite what the diagram suggests? Similarly for Trinity and Durham College, Oxford. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:02, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is some continuity where academic halls were succeeded by colleges after 1600, i.e. Broadgates Hall, Gloucester Hall, Hart Hall, Magdalen Hall and St Edmund Hall. This is demonstrated by the continuity of principal between hall and college and the detail in the Victoria County History digitised at British History Online. This is different from the monastic colleges, where the parent monastery was dissolved, e.g. Durham College, Gloucester College and St Bernard's College (the site of St John's College). TSventon (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Graduate colleges

[edit]

I think it is appropriate to classify All Souls and Green Templeton as graduate colleges. All Souls only admits fellows, a few of who are admitted after their first degree and study for a postgraduate degree. It had four undergraduate bible clerks until 1924. Green Templeton admits "graduate entry medics who have done an undergrad course elsewhere and clinical medics who are around halfway through their medicine degree", who are counted as undergraduate students as discussed earlier on this page. Also some medieval colleges were originally for graduates, e.g. University College supported "ten or twelve masters of arts studying divinity", but that is rightly ignored by the timeline. TSventon (talk) 14:25, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notable events

[edit]

Please suggest several non-overlapping notable events to replace the Cambridge ones in the green bars: cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 22:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Label Start year End year
English students banned from Paris 1167 1167
Black death (first outbreak) 1348 1348
Wars of the Roses 1455 1487
Dissolution of the Monasteries 1536 1541
Bodleian Library founded 1602 1602
English Civil War 1642 1651
Radcliffe Camera opens 1749 1749
University Museum opens 1860 1860
World War I 1914 1918
Women admitted to Oxford degrees 1920 1920
World War II 1939 1945

cmglee some suggestions above, including the national events from the Cambridge timeline. TSventon (talk) 23:32, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Foundation of colleges

[edit]

Jonathan A Jones, is there a published official list of Oxford colleges in order of foundation or recognition? Apparently Cambridge students graduate in that order. TSventon (talk) 23:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No. It is instead a matter of perennial debate, with Balliol, Merton and Univ all claiming to be the oldest, and the University keeping out of the whole mess. The page at [2] appears to favour Univ's claim, but stops short of actually stating that. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 13:18, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jonathan A Jones, in the nineteenth century the University Calendar included a list of colleges by reputed date of foundation, but I expect recent editions don't. The 1876 calendar on Google books includes 21 colleges starting on page 210 with University College, said to have been founded in 872 by Alfred the Great, followed by academic halls from p374, one private hall and the unattached students. TSventon (talk) 19:29, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
On could also look at Almanacks, as the Cambridge 1807 one (which I happen to have nearby) lists dates of foundation. But anything which gives 872 for Univ can hardly be considered a reliable source. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 08:58, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was looking for an order of recognition of the colleges, which obviously existed in the nineteenth century and doesn't now. Hopefully the various college articles have referenced start dates, but almanacks could help fill in gaps. I think in the case of Univ, "said to have been founded in 872" is intended to mean that it was not actually founded in 872. TSventon (talk) 13:04, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with the early Oxford colleges is that founding was a process rather than an event, and by choosing different points in the process as being key you can get quite different results. It's very similar to the Third-oldest university in England debate or the First university in the United States debate. The money to found Univ was given in 1249, and property was purchased in 1253, but the college didn't actually start running until 1280. The decision to found Balliol was made in 1263 but it wasn't really founded until 1268, and didn't have statutes until 1282. Merton has statutes from 1264, and so considers statutes very important, but only gained property in Oxford in 1267. Take your pick really. However I would note that when Peterhouse Cambridge was pre-founded in 1280 as the brethren of the Hospital of St John (prior to the transfer to Cambridge in 1284) they were isntructed to live after the manner of the house of scholars of Walter de Merton (I forget the exact wording, which was of course in Latin anyway) which could be taken as implying that Merton is the model for subsequent colleges. As a former Fellow of Merton I am of course honour bound to take that line anyway. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 17:13, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My thought with medieval colleges is to accept the dates used by colleges now, leaving detailed discussion of the development of Univ, Balliol and Merton to the appropriate articles. The paragraph in the Merton article currently says citation needed. That leaves the questions of what to do about Hertford and St Edmund Hall and other halls that later became colleges. Also Mansfield and Harris Manchester were not part of the university when they opened. TSventon (talk) 17:48, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have added establishment dates to Academic halls of the University of Oxford from the relevant articles. TSventon (talk) 19:43, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@TSventon: @Jonathan A Jones: Sorry for the delay. I've only just been able to look into this. Re "what to do about Hertford and St Edmund Hall and other halls that later became colleges", as we're planning to have different coloured bars for PPH and New foundations and societies, how about a different colour between their actual foundation and when they became colleges of the university? If so, what would be an appopriate label for them? Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 23:03, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Updated chart

[edit]

@TSventon: @Jonathan A Jones: I've updated the diagram as discussed. As the filename refers to colleges and we have co-ed dates, I've decided to exclude PPH and academic halls.

Can you please review the image below and let me know if anything needs changing? I'm still unsure if the order is the most sensible one, especially as St Catherine's is quite late in the list. Thanks, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 23:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Cmglee: I agree with omitting academic halls and PPHs, except where they are included by the foundation date used by the college. Suggested changes are:
  • Trinity College 1555, remove Durham College.
  • Worcester College 1714, remove Gloucester College, Gloucester Hall.
  • Manchester Academy 1786, Manchester College 1840, Harris Manchester College 1996, remove Warrington Academy.
  • Mansfield College 1886, remove Spring Hill College.
  • St Hugh's College → St Hugh's Hall 1886, St Hugh's College 1910.
  • St Anne's College incorrectly has a period as a men only college.
  • St Catherine's College, I would position at 1868 as the college uses two dates and the Wikipedia list uses 1868
  • I would have a category for graduate colleges, rather than graduate/mature colleges, so excluding Harris Manchester. Cambridge has several graduate/mature colleges, while Oxford has several graduate colleges and one mature college.
  • I believe that Green and Templeton colleges were founded as mixed colleges.
  • Oxford Centre for Management Studies was founded in 1965, becoming Templeton College in 1983. TSventon (talk) 22:11, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jonathan A Jones: do you agree with including Brazen Nose College as a former name of Brasenose College? TSventon (talk) 22:15, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There's no reason to include "Brazen Nose College" which is simply a variant spelling, and not a particularly ancient one. The name at the time of founding of the college is given in the preamble to the founding statutes which you can find in the crrent statutes at [3], where it says "The King's Haule and Colledge of Brasenose in Oxford vulgariter nuncupatum" (there is no Latin name).
Beyond that I basically agree with TSventon. I'm unsure on the graduate/mature colleges distinction: this is a distinction whose meaning has changed considerably over the last 700 years, where originally colleges would have specialised in graduate education (for the MA) with halls handling undergraduate education (for the BA) for those who had not acquired this at school. Two other issues are that the purple colour should be labelled "mixed college" rather than "men-only", and 1096 should be "first teaching at Oxford" not "University founded". Jonathan A Jones (talk) 08:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@TSventon: @Jonathan A Jones: Thanks for your feedback. Below are my comments and updated chart. May I ask again, is there a standard ordering of the colleges? St Catherine's seems out of place. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 11:11, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Done Trinity College 1555, remove Durham College.
  •  Done Worcester College 1714, remove Gloucester College, Gloucester Hall.
  •  Done Manchester Academy 1786, Manchester College 1840, Harris Manchester College 1996, remove Warrington Academy.
  •  Done Mansfield College 1886, remove Spring Hill College.
  •  Done St Hugh's College → St Hugh's Hall 1886, St Hugh's College 1910.
  •  Done St Anne's College incorrectly has a period as a men only college.
  • St Catherine's College, I would position at 1868 as the college uses two dates and the Wikipedia list uses 1868
Delegacy for Unattached Students already starts in 1868. This is what I have:
  1. Delegacy for Unattached Students, 1868
  2. Delegacy for Non-Collegiate Students, 1884
  3. St Catherine's Society, 1931
  4. or St Catherine's College, 1963
  • I would have a category for graduate colleges, rather than graduate/mature colleges, so excluding Harris Manchester. Cambridge has several graduate/mature colleges, while Oxford has several graduate colleges and one mature college.
I'd prefer to keep mature college in the darker-shaded categories to be consistent with the Cambridge chart.
  •  Done I believe that Green and Templeton colleges were founded as mixed colleges.
  •  Done Oxford Centre for Management Studies was founded in 1965, becoming Templeton College in 1983.
  •  Done There's no reason to include "Brazen Nose College"...
  •  Done ...purple colour should be labelled "mixed college" rather than "men-only"
  •  Done ...1096 should be "first teaching at Oxford"...
Thanks! I have found a University list of Colleges in order of foundation on page 191 of the University Calendar 2020-21; this is only available online to members of the University but I have put a copy at [4]. Note that this does not give dates, but is the nearest thing to an official order you are likely to find: University College, Balliol, Merton, Exeter, Oriel, Queen's, New College, Lincoln, All Souls, Magdalen, Brasenose, Corpus Christi, Christ Church, Trinity, St John's, Jesus, Wadham, Pembroke, Worcester, Hertford, Keble, St Edmund Hall, Lady Margaret Hall, Somerville, St Hugh's, St Hilda's, St Anne's, St Peter's, St Catherine's, Nuffield, St Antony's, Linacre, St Cross, Wolfson, Kellogg, Mansfield, Harris Manchester, Green Templeton, Reuben. Some aspects of this order are controversial(!) but it's the best you will get. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 12:22, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Jonathan A Jones:, thank you, that makes sense and suggests that "new foundations" like Keble were not recognised as full colleges in the calendar, but 20th and 21st century "societies" like St Cross now are. The women's colleges were recognised as full colleges in 1959, Nuffield and St Anthony's in 1963.
@Cmglee:, do you want to use the order in the calendar and add a note as in the Cambridge timeline?
One small correction, Harris Manchester only became a mature college in 1996. TSventon (talk) 16:36, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, changed as follows. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 22:52, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done ...use the order in the calendar and add a note...
  •  Done ...Harris Manchester only became a mature college in 1996.
Extended content
Name Year of
Foundation 		College
status 		Year of
Coeducation 		Note
All Souls College 1438 1438 1979
Balliol College 1263 1263 1979
Brasenose College 1509 1509 1974
Christ Church 1546 1546 1980
Corpus Christi College 1517 1517 1979
Exeter College 1314 1314 1979
Green Templeton College 2008 2008 2008
Harris Manchester College 1786 1996 1877
Hertford College 1282 1874 1974
Jesus College 1571 1571 1974
Keble College 1870 1952 1979 https://www.keble.ox.ac.uk/governance-and-policies/ keble
Kellogg College 1990 1990 1990
Lady Margaret Hall 1878 1959 1979 https://www.firstwomenatoxford.ox.ac.uk/timeline
Linacre College 1962 1965 1962 https://www.linacre.ox.ac.uk/about-linacre/college-history
Lincoln College 1427 1427 1979
Magdalen College 1458 1458 1979
Mansfield College 1886 1986 1979
Merton College 1264 1264 1979
New College 1379 1379 1979
Nuffield College 1937 1963 1937 The History of the University of Oxford: Volume VIII: The Twentieth Century p214
Oriel College 1326 1326 1985
Pembroke College 1624 1624 1979
The Queen's College 1341 1341 1979
Reuben College 2019 2019 2019
St Anne's College 1879 1959 1979 https://www.firstwomenatoxford.ox.ac.uk/timeline
St Antony's College 1950 1963 1962 https://www.sant.ox.ac.uk/about-st-antonys/history
St Catherine's College 1868 1962 1974
St Cross College 1965 1965 1965
St Edmund Hall 1278 1957 1979 https://www.seh.ox.ac.uk/discover/explore-teddy-hall/history-of-the-hall
St Hilda's College 1893 1959 2008 https://www.firstwomenatoxford.ox.ac.uk/timeline
St Hugh's College 1886 1959 1986 https://www.firstwomenatoxford.ox.ac.uk/timeline
St John's College 1555 1555 1979
St Peter's College 1929 1961 1979 https://www.spc.ox.ac.uk/college-history
Somerville College 1879 1959 1994 https://www.firstwomenatoxford.ox.ac.uk/timeline
Trinity College 1555 1555 1979
University College 1249 1249 1979
Wadham College 1610 1610 1974
Wolfson College 1966 1966 1966
Worcester College 1714 1714 1979
College recognition dates above. TSventon (talk) 21:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Updated chart

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:08, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:22, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Colleges and Societies (again)

[edit]

As mentioned in a previous section from 2007, the societies are not strictly speaking colleges, but merely use the style as a courtesy. It would be nice to get this right but that would require some careful phrasing to avoid creating more confusion. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 10:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which bit of prose in particular has this issue? The subtlety seems to be made clear in the lead, as far as I can see. — Jumbo T (talk) 11:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, ignore me, I see how the recent edit added ambiguity. — Jumbo T (talk) 11:45, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, my point was that having opened this can of worms in the lede we might have to open it wider. Formally there are 39 "colleges" comprising 36 colleges and 3 societies, as well as 5 PPHs. Things were simpler in the old days when societies were just called societies, but these days we try very hard to pretend that societies are colleges even though they aren't. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 12:45, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest including the societies in what are called 'colleges' in the lead, but adding an explanatory footnote after has thirty-nine colleges, detailing the subtlety. I'll leave it to you though, I have to get back to revising for collections :) — Jumbo T (talk) 18:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Latin names

[edit]

IP editors have recently added Latin names based on the articles and a 2024 Freedom of Information request. I am minded to use the current Latin names sourced to whatdotheyknow here rather than the longer or historic versions from the articles. Any thoughts?

  • e.g. Collegium de Keble (FOI) v Collegium Keblense (article)

TSventon (talk) 09:24, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Colleges_of_the_University_of_Oxford&oldid=1260011007"