Talk:Velomobile

Open Source Velomobile Development project

Please see: http://www.ihpva.org/wiki/index.php/Open_Source_Velomobile_Development_Project

Athlete car concept

Following revolutionary velomobile design should be included in the article: Smart Cities Athlete Car Concept

Thanks.

KVDP (talk) 09:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

DIY plans

The article-section "diy velomobiles" should include the exact plans (this is to be taken out of the article and linked).

KVDP (talk) 09:25, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Merging Velocar

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

No consensus. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 15:15, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

---

• Anyone who gives their opinion, please bold your opinion using one of the following: Merge, Don't Merge, or Undecided.

Undecided, but open to persuasion. While all the well known velomobiles are tricycle based (AFAIK), there appear to be good reasons why quadricycle based velomobiles should be the future, especially so far as their use for general transportation Germany — Four-Wheeled Velomobiles Totally screwed (talk) 07:17, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

The article Velocar seems to be of the same subject. Should these be merged? or am I missing some distinction? ./zro (⠠⠵) 01:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Merge Yes. Velocar was an early name for a French velomobile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.31.188 (talk) 23:56, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Merge I believe that Velocar was a trade name that is no longer in general use. Velomobile is a generic term and is not manufacturer specific. The reference to the velocar is to provide useful historical context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Totally screwed (talk • contribs) 07:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Merge My opinion is: The two concepts are equal enough to merge Velocar into Velomobile. (ie: Velocar would become a heading in the Velomobile article)-Mattokunhayashi (talk) 23:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Don't Merge - The Velocar article is about a specific make of velomobile rather than velomobiles in general. Merging the articles will be the same as mergin Ford into Automobile. --NJR_ZA (talk) 17:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

• The difference between Ford and Velocar is a huge one; Ford is a multi-million (or is it billion?) dollar-a-year company, whereas Velocar is a now-extinct company, see the difference? The topic is not major and relevant like Ford or Automobile, and should therefore be merged with Velomobile. Think of it this way, how many times in a year do you hear, see, or think 'Ford Motor Company' or otherwise? LOTS! Likewise, how many times in a year do you hear, see, or think 'Velocar?' Is there even a count? Velocar should be merged with Velomobile.-Mattokunhayashi (talk) 22:05, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

There are many differences between Ford and Velocar, most of them not relevant to our discussion. The original argument for merging was that the articles are on the same subject, which is not true. Velomobile is on velomobiles in general, Velocar is on one specific brand of velomobiles. In this sense, the analogy with Automobile and Ford works (but if you find the amount of differences between Ford and Velocar too vast for an analogy, feel free to use Benz Patent Motorwagen instead of Ford). Your argument seems to be a new one — you think that Velocar does not fullfil Wikipedia:notability criteria, therefore it does not deserve its own article. I believe this is also not true. And on "hearing, seeing and thinking" — Wikipedia has articles on millions different subjects and I am pretty sure I have never in my life thought about most of them. Still, I do not believe we should merge them ;-) --Tchoř (talk) 21:13, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Don't Merge - I agree with the argument given by NJR ZA. --Tchoř (talk) 21:51, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

As far as the car analogy goes, Velocar is more similar to Baker Motor Vehicle, 1948 Tucker Sedan, and the Delorian. However, I think fewer people care about the Velocar than those. If it has a separate article, so should the Mango, Quest, Go-One, Versatile, Leiba, WAW, etc. But the whole thing is already basically in the history section, so I thing we should just merge in the rest. -kslays (talk • contribs) 00:13, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Don't Merge - The specific history of this particular vehicle in regard to the invention of the recumbent bicycle is unique among its peers, and thus should remain independent. 72.196.23.234 (talk) 05:45, 10 May 2010 (UTC)David Flick

Don't Merge as per 72.196.23.234. The Velocar article highlights the unique history of this vehicle. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 15:15, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Coefficient of drag

Have any of these vehicles had their Cd or CdA measured? --IanOsgood (talk) 08:00, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I found this page of CdA for bikes, velomobiles, and HPV racers.

The Bicycle Speed and Power Calculator uses measured Cd and CdA figures from the Quest, Mango, Alleweder, Orca and Leitra as well as several two wheel recumbents and bicycles. Räderwerk states figures for the Milan Mk2 and Milan SL at their site. Daniel Fenn (co-constructor and builder of the Go-One Evo K and Evo Ks at Beyss) didn't gave hard figures but mentioned the close similarty of the Milan figures to the current Go-One K and Ks models some where in the German http://www.velomobilforum.de — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.19.118.75 (talk) 13:02, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Check out this fairly comprehensive explanation of velomobile efficiency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKsGS1zcNsM 77.8.161.17 (talk) 10:50, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

suggest removing the line about them being cheap. 5000-10000 USD is not cheap for comparable vehicles, power assisted scooters can be found for less than half this price, 5 seater compact cars can be had for less than US$13k new. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.221.74.37 (talk) 05:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

The usual critic point about price. *grin*

Most people forget to account for the average running costs of cars (fuel, tax, insurance, repairs), when they complain about the (fairly substantial) price of velomobiles. A few years ago the German ADAC (pro car organisation) calculated the average monthly cost of car ownership between €200 and €400 (plus fuel!) for a small to medium size car. So, your used 10,000 USD/EUR car will cost you around 2400-4800 bucks a year plus fuel.

A new 10,000 EUR velomobile will have next to no running costs (save 1-2 sets of tires per year at 60-150 bucks per set) and, according to my notes, it'll go through a chain, cassette and chain wheel every 20,000km (100-300 $/€).

Next: used velomobiles hold their value. Its fairly normal to pay 5000-8000+ bucks for a 3-8 year old velomobile.

The comparison to scooters:

Yeah, right. Try driving a scooter (like a Vespa, not Lime Tier, etc) for 50km or 100km at 5°C. Its a miserable experience. In a velomobile, a 100km tour its a nice 2 hour workout (I'm too lazy to go to the gym) 77.8.161.17 (talk) 11:15, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Don't merge; this is about recumbent cycles not velomobiles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert cordon champ (talk • contribs) 17:34, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

2 seater design

Perhaps a 2 seater design can be integrated to the article, where the seats are placed behind each other; see also: Talk:Twike 91.182.207.209 (talk) 15:20, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The Twike is a small electric car, or (the 45km/h version) a four-wheeled moped, without any human power involved.

There is a two seater Quest —Preceding unsigned comment added by Totally screwed (talk • contribs) 07:21, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

The Milan 4.2 is a two-seater velomobile, but its in "development hell" for close to a decade now. Only about five or eight prototypes exist.

Characteristics a velomobile /should/ have?

• "It should have as many of the following characteristics as possible."

Why do we have a list of characteristics that we'd like velomobiles to have? There's a huge list of hopeful fantasy qualities which tells us absolutely nothing about what qualities velomobiles in the real world possess. For example, telling us that a velomobile "should be light" is useless - if velomobiles are generally heavy then why not just say that? In fact it's worse than useless as it stands - it's potentially misleading, inviting the assumption that velomobiles do in fact possess the properties which we would like them to have. I'm very interested in this form of transport, but IMO that section should be removed and replaced with the actual characteristics of velomobiles. Destynova (talk) 02:30, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

• • I agree, an encyclopedia article does not list what something should have, but is a summary of what something is. I would like to see this section rewritten in a more appropriate format to keep what is a lot of good information, possibly by listing qualities of actual models for example. Perhaps someone with knowledge about these can make some improvements.Legion211 (talk) 04:09, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

I removed the section pending improvement. I don't see any value to the current format. It's wholly unsourced, based on its author's opinion, constitutes original research and speculation, and offers no facts to the reader. If there's anything to be salvaged, salvage it, but there's no value in leaving a pile of undesirable material sitting out and waiting for someone else to pick out the gems. 69.27.254.43 (talk) 16:50, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

2600:2B00:7671:9800:AC6C:C3CE:BC83:4B2E (talk) 05:26, 13 November 2020 (UTC)== Road legal? ==

I would like to see a section discussing where in the USA these vehicles are NOT road legal. According to the Organic Transit (ELF) website, some states have banned these on the road unless licensed as a regular gas vehicle, but other states still consider them to be bicycles as long as they electric assist meets the definition of a "low powered electric assist" vehicle, eg max top speed on level terrain for 170 lb driver of 20 mph.

So where are they street legal as bicycles and where are they street legal only as full-size motor vehicles, and does any state ban them from road use altogether? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.167.252 (talk) 07:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

The issue is that these heavy so-called velomobiles such as the ELF rely primarily on the propulsion of a motor. The standard ELF for example, has a 750w assist whereas most healthy cyclists can only output around 250w. For most in the velomobile community this massive assist would disqualify the ELF and other vehicles of its ilk since the core definition of a velomobile requires it to be primarily human powered, if not completely human powered. Therefore, the ELF is a battery-assisted pedelec, much like the covered scooters seen in Asia (which, without this important distinction, would also be classed a velomobile). There are no areas in the USA or Canada that have banned human powered velomobiles. There are areas that have banned pedelecs with a large battery assist, and usually the restrictions have to do with the top speed permissible under battery-only operation and or the wattage produced by the motor. This alone separates these motor-assisted pedelecs from their velomobile cousins. 70.24.68.53 (talk) 08:12, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree by original definition a Velomobile is human powered. Velomobiles are road legal across the US but are restricted to where they can be ridden at times (limited access highways and freeways for example)Pedelecs are regulated and in some cases band do to power or regulated as another type of vehicle and should not be included as velomobiles. American marketing calls stuff by the wrong term to sale it all the time. This should not change the term because it is being used wrong to sale goods.

Dallascyclist (talk) 22:36, 6 April 2019 (UTC)HUMAN powered velomobile are legal everywhere bicycles are .. Electric assisted vehicles are another matter and should be addressed in their own space. Dallascyclist (talk) 22:36, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Ok, here is a agreed on definition from actual velomobile owners (like me) and velocar riders:

-velomobiles are human powered and weight 20-30kg. Current velomobiles (as of 2024) reach about 50-60km/h on the flat at 150-200W human power. While some owners equip their velomobiles with electric assist (max 250W, 25km/h Pedelec in EU) they are still able to go 50km/h+ by human power (typical velomobile models Milan SL, Milan GT, Bülk Mk1, DF, Alpha 7, Alpha 9, Alpha M9, Alpha W9, Snoek, Quatrevelo)

-velocars are primarily powered by a 250W electric motor, weight 50-100+kg and drive at 25km/h. Even with a lot of effort by the rider, they hardly ever go faster than 30km/h on the flat (Frikar, ELF, Hopper, etc)

References

Weblinks

If you like, you might add https://velocar.net/ as a nonprofit market overview on velomobiles designed to transport people and cargo. The decision to use 'velocar' for the category is based on the apparent lack of viable alternatives and goes back to the german velomobilforum.de: https://www.velomobilforum.de/forum/index.php?forums/velocar.80/ Should you have questions regarding the site, please use mail@velocar.net. Regards, Stefan --91.11.71.204 (talk) 18:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)